In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke, alongside Terri Dentry and Aspasia Karageorge, delves into the complex interplay between emotions, chronic pain, and the mechanisms of healing within the framework of Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP). Through a rich dialogue, the discussion unfolds to explore the intricate ways in which pain serves not only as a physical experience but as a profound emotional and psychological defense mechanism, obscuring underlying emotional disturbances and traumas. The conversation navigates through the socialization of pain, the pivotal role of emotional awareness in healing, and the transformative potential of ISTDP in restoring agency and empowerment to individuals. By bridging emotional and physical healing, this episode illuminates the holistic approach necessary for comprehensive therapy, emphasizing the integration of diverse therapeutic practices. The engaging discourse provides compelling insights into therapy's transformative power, underscoring the importance of understanding and integrating our emotional landscapes. Bios and Links: Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at terri@thinkred.com.au. Aspasia Karageorge, DCP, is a seasoned clinical psychologist with advanced degrees from the University of Sydney and the University of Otago. She serves as a Research Associate at the Brain and Mind Centre of the University of Sydney, where she focuses on qualitative research in novel mental health interventions and medical education. To explore more about her extensive work and insights, visit her website at https://www.aspasiapsychology.com/siapsychology.com or follow her on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3ATJzuK4STHGSuv4m8m_uw . For details on her clinical services and to book consultations, visit her private practice at https://sydneycitypsychology.com.au/. Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group:https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Connect with John: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john Resources: The Vervaeke Foundation https://vervaekefoundation.org/ Awaken to Meaning https://awakentomeaning.com/ Voicecraft https://www.voicecraft.io/ Quotes: "ISTDP stands for Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a therapy developed by Dr. Davanloo in the 60s. Essentially, it views chronic pain as a defense against emotional experience." - Aspasia Karageorge [00:06:00] "Socialization of pain and how our narrative bias is driving a lot of this... the narrative bias coming from the early childhood experiences, and that providing the bias to what we are thinking, giving us a filter of how we are then relating to these things as we go forward in life." - Terri Dentry [00:38:04] “Modeling goes deeper in the brain than propositions.” - John Vervaeke [00:59:20] Glossary of Terms: ISTDP: Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a form of therapy focusing on emotional experience. Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction: Unpacking Emotions, Chronic Pain, and Rationality in Therapy 00:10:00 - Exploring the Socialization of Pain and Emotion's Role 00:15:00 - ISTDP and the Emotional Landscape: Understanding Pain as Emotional Distraction 00:24:20 - Restoring Agency and Emotional Insight: Pathways to Healing in Psychotherapy 00:43:00 - Integrating Therapies: Towards a Holistic Approach to Emotional and Physical Healing 01:07:20 - Conclusion: Embracing Complexity: Transformative Insights from ISTDP Therapy

Here I speak with two friends who have been instrumental to my therapy (and life) praxis - philosopher & writer, Daniel L. Garner (of O.G. Rose), and psychotherapy practitioner & trainer, Johannes Kieding (links to their channels below). We explore topics intersecting psychoanalytically-informed therapy, encountering difference, anxiety, and systems that might support the courage to face pain and challenge in the service of relationship and intimacy (not an easy task). We cover a little of Hume, Goethe, Tillich, Leibniz, among others... chapter markers below. [Recorded March 2024. Personal opinions only - no clinical advice included] 00:37 - Early experiences of paradox & irony 04:29 - Hume & philosophy as psychological immune system 08:19 - Psychotherapy, the unconscious, & 'getting clear' 13:56 - David Hume: Is, ought, suchness 19:57 - Pluralism & active participation in reality 25:31 - Concepts as organs of perception vs. blinders 30:27 - Influence of unconscious emotions & psychoanalysis 33:11 - Emotions as potentials for opening up 38:34 - Finding meaning in relationship: the meaning crisis and philosophical melancholia 51:40 - Lack, the apophatic, and self-forgetfulness 01:02:08 - Courage to encounter the unexpected 01:06:54 - Creativity 01:08:12 - Cultural influences vs. psychoanalysis (pleasure principle yielding to reality principle) 01:20:26 - The non-rational and absolute choice 01:21:39 - Thymos and the 'unarmoured test' 01:23:54 - Relationship skills, self-forgetfulness and flow 01:29:40 - Anxiety, comfort, intimacy, & therapy 01:42:07 - War on attention & education systems 01:46:03 - Mental illness, reification, and rigidity 01:53:19 - Process & the medium: effort, pace, investment O.G. Rose: @O.G.Rose.Michelle.and.Daniel og-rose.com Johannes Kieding: @LearningForPsychotherapists johanneskieding.com

Aspasia Karageorge is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Australia, a qualitative researcher, and a writer of some kind. She grew up in small town New Zealand wedged between a mountain and a volcanic black-sand coast. She is curious about practice-based wisdom, the creative process, languages of the unconscious, and some intersection of wonder/beauty/mystery/connection. Her therapy approach is greatly informed by Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP). As a research consultant, she is broadly focused on clinical complexity, innovation, and workforce development. Longstanding literary loves include Camus, Kazantzakis, Seferis, Anaïs Nin, Plato, Borges, Kafka, Balzac, Jung, Paz, Sartre, Nietzche, Gertrude Stein, Hemingway… a ridiculous list of names. In her downtime, you’ll currently find her in the water, writing something that won’t make sense until later, daydreaming with campari, and/or dancing to some wild Greek 70s pop records with her kids. She also loves to contribute with the beautiful crew over at Voicecraft. You can find Aspasia's wonderful YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@aspasiapsychology Aspasia is also a contributor over at Voicecraft, a wonderful forum for dialogues such as these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_MNjGdPcUs Journal of Contemporary ISTDP, where she is Managing Editor: https://www.istdpjournal.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aspasia_psychology/ Website for therapy & research things: https://www.aspasiapsychology.com/

I talk with Dr Coughlin about particular aspects of Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP) that have been on my mind in recent times. Namely, the crucial focus on the emotional impulse (not just the feeling), how our ability to imagine and visualise action facilitates our access to the unconscious (and can also get in the way), and why there are so many men and so few women in this particular part of the therapy universe. Chapter markers are below. Patricia Coughlin is a Clinical Psychologist with over 40 years of experience as a therapist and teacher. She is the author of several key ISTDP books, has a wonderful youtube channel that has been instrumental to my learning of ISTDP ( @patriciacoughlinphd1852 ) and trains psychotherapists internationally. You can find her at: https://www.istdpnortheast.com [Recorded April 2024 by Dr Aspasia Karageorge. Personal opinions only - no clinical advice included] Chapters: 00:23 The action impulse of an emotion 03:04 Resistance against impulse 06:40 Potential mechanisms for how experiencing the impulse provides access to unconscious material 09:29 Somatic and imaginary experiencing of the impulse 18:42 Imagination as a liminal space to act without truly acting 22:17 Moral judgment, religion, and thought/action fusion 32:01 Performative impulse vs. authentic impulse (looking out for somatic activation) 33:43 ISTDP as a male dominated space, and being a female therapist 38:02 Working with defences directly, but not derogatorily

Aspasia Karageorge is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Sydney, Australia, a research consultant, and a writer of some kind. Her therapy approach is Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP), a type of experiential psychodynamic therapy developed by Dr Habib Davanloo. Aspasia is curious about the creative process, process relational philosophy, modern Greek poetry, languages of the unconscious, and some intersection of wonder/beauty/mystery/connection. She consults on research projects broadly focused on clinical complexity, innovation, knowledge translation, and health workforce development. She also loves to contribute with the beautiful crew over at Voicecraft. You’ll currently find her drowning in secondhand books and post-it notes. YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@aspasiapsychology Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aspasia_psychology/ Website for therapy & research things: https://www.aspasiapsychology.com/ ‎ Aspasia is also a contributor over at Voicecraft, a wonderful forum for dialogues such as these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_MNjGdPcUs Journal of Contemporary ISTDP, where she is Managing Editor: https://www.istdpjournal.com/

Seth Dellinger and I delve into a conversation about the Feldenkrais Method and Intensive Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP) - at least the ways in which we each practice these approaches with clients. Seth and I explore parallels and intersections in how we work, highlighting shared principles in addressing patterns of movement (physical, relational, and emotional) and self-image. We talk about how each practice works to open up possibilities for movement vs. remaining ‘stuck’, and enhance patient agency both at a fine-grain level of detail and more holistically at a system level. 01:39 Body Focus in Psychotherapy 02:53 Observing Clients' Body Language 06:04 Feldenkrais Method Basics 07:56 Movement and Emotional States 12:40 Building Trust 26:47 Anxiety and Body Patterns 40:49 Exploring Unfamiliar Movements 41:58 Adapting to Discomfort 43:57 Curiosity, Playfulness, and Client Engagement 45:39 Understanding Emotional Associations 47:28 Intra-Psychic vs. Interpersonal Conflicts 50:17 Navigating Client Resistance 52:27 Mixed Feelings and Integration 54:30 Therapist's Role in Client Breakthroughs 57:02 Markers of Progress in ISTDP 59:52 Imaginal Techniques 01:17:12 Self-Image 01:18:40 Imagination and Action 01:20:04 Understanding Anger and Primal Impulses 01:21:42 Links to Avoided Past Experiences 01:27:07 Fine-Grained Analysis & Holistic Understandings 01:34:03 Choice and Agency 01:35:23 The Potent Self and Ideal Movement 01:39:25 The Meaning Crisis and Body Awareness 01:42:37 Eyes as the window to hidden psychology 01:45:06 Concluding Thoughts and Future Conversations ~ WAYS TO CONTACT SETH ~ sethdellinger.com Free training: The 5 Foundations of Presence: https://mailchi.mp/38989dc1a62b/5-foundations-of-presence YouTube: https://youtube.com/@movewithseth Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/sethdellinger?r=p5zo5&utm_medium=ios Work with Seth: https://calendly.com/movewithseth/talk?month=2024-06 ~ FIND ME AT THESE OTHER PLACES ~ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aspasia_psychology/ Journal of Contemporary ISTDP: https://www.istdpjournal.com/ Voicecraft: @Voicecraft Contact me via my contact form on my website: www.aspasiapsychology.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- Recorded in June 2024 via Zoom

I talk with Javier Rivera about a concept he has been exploring which he calls 'negative pragmatism'. What do we do with lack? How do we account for lack? I've been following parts of Javier's dialogues with others on this topic with a lot of interest, most notably with Daniel Garner and others over at The Net (hosted by O.G. Rose). Although I was battling a head cold at the time, we managed to finally talk for the first time and lay some groundwork for subsequent dialogues in the future. It was a delight. For more from Javier and his exploration of negative pragmatism: @javiphilosophy Notes to myself (the note-form summary I write immediately after a dialogue like this): The absurdity of relationship (knowing it will always be imperfect but taking part in it anyway) and the transformative magic of love - that I choose to be here with you anyway - in this imperfect thing that can never reach the ideal; which, reveals to me over and over my own imperfections, your imperfectness, your separateness, my own separateness, the gaping chasm (lack), up against the constant drumming of the yearning (kept alive by a directionality of trying to reach the ideal and ceasing this experience of tension and excitation). And yet, through love, I can stay in it and find ever new ways to create, build, be with the certainty of imperfection inherent to relationship that is in conflict with the wish for the return to oneness, and the sparks born of this conflict are the drive to yearn and strive (for “more”, for movement, for progression of some manner, for building and not falling stagnant). If we can be with one another in the yearning, acknowledging it is the same drive which gives rise to our ability to have momentum and movement,even though it requires an experiencing of pain and sadness and grief and anger as part of it… then we open new avenues of possibility, together, full of feeling.

Adriana Forte is an incredible woman, and the creator of CLab https://theclab.substack.com/. Here we talk about the possibility of shaping movement between masculine and feminine, intimacy, hormones, motherhood, breakdowns, creativity, the menstrual cycle, interactions with men, system change, therapy, grief, work, going off-grid, relationship, intelligence, conflict, community, spaciousness vs. accommodation, lack, modernity, wisdom, physiology, transformation, caretaking, freedom, periods and blood, being stuck in a hallway of mirrors, men’s appreciation of women, sexuality, and there’s even a person crawling around in the background thrown in for good measure. A cyclical / spiralling (upward?) conversation around the contours of feminine experience and possibility, from the location of a particular day in early March 2024 between two curious, creative, and (dis)combobulated women. Adriana has recently created CLab, a rich space of resources, possibility, conversations, and reflections related to the cyclical feminine, and what this offers to all of us. Or, in Adriana’s words, “a cyclically informed culture in the making where we co-design systems that integrate the menstrual cycle, and more generally, a cyclical worldview”. I highly recommend checking it out: https://theclab.substack.com/ You can also find Adriana's work at: http://www.fullyhuman.net.au

Metamodernist author Brendan Graham Dempsey joins Elder and teacher in the Integral community Bruce Alderman for a dialogue with Tim Adalin and the Voicecraft network to explore commonalities and differences between Metamodernism & Integral Theory. 3:07 - What is metamodernism and how is it helpful? 10:38 - What is integral theory? 23:00 - Direct acquaintance with reality and the mediation of society 31:15 - Relations / difference between Integral & Metamodernism 1:05:15 - Subtle energy, transrationality, esoteric experience & the social influence of Alex Jones, and the new age 1:39:52 - VC Network joins to reflect and further 1:51:30 - Urgency of Integral / Metamodernism in the context of addressing global problems This dialogue informed a follow up dialogue between Brendan and Bruce on Brendan's channel which you can watch here: https://youtu.be/XDuP2WkptYc --- Learn more about Voicecraft podcasts, events, courses and membership network @ https://www.voicecraft.io & apply to the network @ https://www.voicecraft.network Access the show notes for this podcast at @ https:/www.voicecraft.io/content/e87-integral-theory-metamodernism-w/-brendan-graham-dempsey-bruce-alderman Listen to the full intro song by Cantrips titled 'The Big Break' @ https://youtu.be/Qaj-stBL4W0